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PROFILE: Reality-Based Fighting School – “U.R.B.A.N Military Combatives Program”
10 CommentsThe program is the URBAN MCP or Ultimate Reality Based Attack and Neutralization Military Combatives Program.
This clip is a sneak peak into the world of real military combatives being taught to special forces and special operations soldiers.
This system, headed by fight instructors Chris Heintzman and Michael Warrren, was created to truly prepare a soldier for combat not like the common sport system being taught to average soldiers call Modern Army Combatives which wholly fails to address any realities of a fight to the death.
To find out more visit: http://www.URBANmcp.com
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Published on July 17, 2009 · Filed under: Reality-Based Fighting Schools; Tagged as: Chris Heintzman, martial arts, Michael Warren, Reality-Based Fighting Schools, self defense, self protection, street fighting
10 Responses to “PROFILE: Reality-Based Fighting School – “U.R.B.A.N Military Combatives Program””
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I’m, not impressed!
Ok, I don’t really like to bash other instructors or their training, but, since I have seen so many people go out of their way to talk s**t about stuff that I actually thought was good, I had to take a minute to discuss a couple of the shortcommings of this new wonder system:
1. They don’t like MACP (I don’t either) because it is basically just MMA (which it is) then they host a Dan Severn seminar according to their web site?!?!?!?!
2. Speaking of MMA, there were some “ok” drills to be seen, but most were just watered-down versions of MMA training, which they bash as being ineffective!
3. Closed-fist punches? Have any of these guys ever been in a fight? I have. There was a very large fight in the parking lot in front of the disco where I bounce about a month ago. All of the participants were easy to recognize the next weekend because they were wearing casts on their right forearms because of broken hands and / or wrists. Need I mention that a SF guy with a broken dominant hand is like a porn star with a broken dick?
4. I don’t like the way that the guy in the pistol-reload drill brings the muzzel out of line with the aggressor. I always have my guys train to keep the muzzle in line with the bad guy and move the magazine-handling (weak / supporting) arm to the mag bag and back to the gun for the reload.
5. Ok, I know that it is meant as a joke, but the scene where the guy storms a room, takes out a bad guy and then flushes the toilet on which he is sprawled-out . . . am I the only one who doesn’t find it funny to make jokes while preparing warriors for kill-or-get-killed situations? Jokes that basically “train” those men to forget situational awareness, loose all muzzle disipline, get accustomed to expecting “time-outs” that they will not have in combat, etc.? WTF?
Ok, enough for today. If you want to disscuss this further, you know where to find me in the web or just find Christopher Bob Roberts on facebook.
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Chris,
Good comments. I like the critical thinking. That’s something we encourage much of during training. I’ll attempt to address each of your concerns.
1. We train several different programs at our facilities. We offer MMA as a sport for those who are interested so that we can introduce them to Reality Based fighting. Dan Severn is coming as he has been teaching DT to law enforcement personnel and wants to learn the methods. T9o that degree Gokor and many other world class fighters like to visit and train with us. We endeavored to show a little bit of everything in the video. The most effective techniques are not displayed as a matter of direct planning. We do not want to put that sort of information out to the public unless they are supervised when learning it and we know who they are.
2. From the video, we only wanted to have something that got people’s attention. Our actual drills are based on Combat Actions Lessons Learned and actual experiences. Given the brief glimpse provided by the video you might want to look further into what we actually train and even more importantly, how we train. For URBAN Combatives, it is how we train that determines the probabilities of success. Not a fancy move or strong opinion of self confidence. We stick to the basics and develop competence.
3. Yes, closed fist punches. Another commonly debated subject. Closed fists are taught in addition to open hand strikes. We also teach when and where to use either. We condition our bodies so this is not an issue. If you also are familiar with the equipment worn in combat many of our students wear the kevlar knuckled gloves when downrange. Those guys who went out and broke themselves that you know, they do not know how to punch, clearly. Funny you should mention bouncing, several of our students are bouncers. That environment is good for experience but, it is also a place where you are not able to truly step it up to the war fighting standard as you are not allowed to kill the rowdy and drunk patrons. Beating up drunks though does teach you a thing or two about the basics though. Our instructors have been in the whole gambit from fire fights to street brawls and even international championship competitions. The experience base is top notch. From several SFARTAETC course instructors, to world champion fighters. An extensive group of professionals.
4. Two words, shooter preference. The shooter’s sight picture is not changed from his target when he reloads. The method of reloading you describe we also use, for long gun changes. As far as the pistol is concerned, this allows the shooter to correct stoppage or malfunctions in a very rapid manner without loosing the all important sight picture. It’s Instinctive Point Shooting. That is only one of several methods taught.
5. Concerning the flushing scene on the video. Yes, it was very much meant as a joke. We try to encourage some levity whenever possible. IF we wanted everyone out there to know how to slice the pie, stack properly, or strong wall enter a room to achieve dominance and reveal methods and means, we would have shown how that is actually conducted. As it is, it was a short video made to be posted on the internet and thus, open source. We prefer to be able to vet our students a little before getting into the real deal of room clearing and the like. I can absolutely assure you that our drills run no timeouts, strict muzzle discipline and realistic environments. Again, combat experienced SFARTAETC instructors do know how to teach this and do under live fire conditions.
In short, good comments. We encourage critical questions. The URBAN Combatives system has already saved soldier’s lives both in war and back home. We stand firmly behind the system and what it teaches. We welcome anyone to come out and experience the system for themselves.
V/R,
Michael “Mikey” Warren
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I WOULD NOT USE CLOSED HAND STRIKES!!!!!! Why? Because they will cause pain when you land wrong. That means you will experience pain as long as the fight is on. Yeah you have the adrenaline dump but when you’re in pain, especially in your hand, you will feel it. Yes you practice it so you can take the pain but why do that when there are other things you can spend your time on developing. It takes too long to develop and especially if you want to train women. If I want to learn something, it shouldn’t take months for things that should take weeks to learn. Combatives or not. I wouldn’t take my gun off the line of fire either no matter what the intention is. Is you’re reloading the weapon should face the target it is intended to kill. MMA is not good for street survival too which is the nature of your system, correct? Even stick “fighting”. Thats too complicated to pull off in a real world environment and I dont care what any body says. I AM WILLING TO SHOW THIS TO ANY BODY THAT SAYS I AM WRONG. If you really implement realistic scenarios without letting the pother person win you will see if it works. I have seen too many videos where they say its for warriors, soldiers etc and show MMA techniques, crap boxing techniques, and doesn’t work on the street and if it does it was despite of the training not because of it. POINT SHOOTING? Doesn’t fly in the real world. Targets are not put in place for you to hit and then move on. Targets moves quickly and there are too many conditions that can set the situation into chaos. Sport shooting and combat shooting are 2 different animals. Like MMA and street fighting. In 1 you win and get trophies. The 2nd you get to be alive.
Getting back to closed hands striking. Yes there are targets you can hit closed handed and hit like the throat, groin, ear, cheek, kidneys but anything else, FORGET IT!!!. Again, I am more than willing to show why what I mentioned didnt work WONT!!. Contact me please so we can share, show and set away. If you dont practice for real in real areas simulating real conditions, you are doing your students a disservice. PERIOD. -
Neal,
Some rather harsh words from only a glimpse of what URBAN is about.
First and foremost, Glad to hear them and see there are still some critical thinkers out there. As usual though, when not informed or aware of our many training methods and drills you are not anywhere near accurate in your assessment.
I do welcome your opinion of closed fist striking. I feel from first-hand experience though, you are flat wrong. On a side note, URBAN students are taught both closed fist and open handed strikes to a degree that it really doesn’t matter. The women we train stay right along side the men from day one. They can and do hang. Each of our courses encompasses everything in just 2 weeks at a time. The level of proficiency demonstrated by the students at the end of each 2 week period is in their own words, “amazing”. Several students have had their lives on the line with as little as 3 hours of training and have come out on top and alive. I would be happy to get you in touch with them so you can hear it from the source. With URBAN it’s really how the instructors teach. It’s not about the techniques but, the principles of why. Sorry you are still trapped in the closed minded box of techniques. We use techniques to gain an understanding of the dynamics of a situation and then drill to overcome it as all techniques are only as good as how you understand using them.
As far as the reloading methods, shooter preference. Simply put. It works best for me. Other students, we teach other ways. The 18B who taught me how to reload that way did so for some very specific reasons. As long as my sights are on the target the reload method really doesn’t matter. Also, what if you have a malfunction? Then add a million other “what ifs” and you may see my point. Instinctive point shooting is effective in snap shot scenarios when the shots have to be completed quickly, accurately, and up close. We do train with extremely high stress scenarios as well. That prepares us for combat shooting.Not to mention force on force with less than lethal ammunition. For our long distance shooting we teach different methods. I would very much like to extend a friendly invitation for you to come and see for yourself exactly what we do and more importantly, how we train here in Fort Bragg. Hopefully our southern hospitality will allow you feel welcome. I feel in doing so, your concerns would be best addressed. As far as targets moving quickly, um, duh!
We shoot moving targets as well as stationary. Our drills are not in the realm of competitive shooting. Our firearms instructors are SFARTEC qualified instructors with actual “two way range” experience in several theaters of conflict.In short, URBAN is nothing but practicing in hyper-realistic scenarios that are highly likely to occur given the custom drills tailored for each military unit we train.
If you really think you have a better way, come show it.
Very Respectfully,
Mikey Warren
Combat Veteran, 7th SFG(A) -
Ok, I thought that I would just put in a few good words about Mikey since I “talked” to him on facebook and saw a video of his duck and cover into windpipe manipulation technique on this blog.
Although I do stand by the comments I made about his trailer, the actual training may be different than that shown here, so my problems were and are with the trailer, not with the man.
Anyway, here are my comments to respond to his comments:
1. “We train several different programs at our facilities. We offer MMA as a sport . . .”–Right on man. Teaching is a business and you can offer Tae Bo in order to take in more money. I wouldn’t offer Tae Bo as a means of self defense, however and when I saw the trailer I was under the impression that Mikey was teaching triangle chokes as a means of self defense like so many other suppossed reality based trainers do. As long as he makes a distinction between street fighting and MMA for sport, which he seems to do, I don’t see anything wrong with it.
2. “From the video, we only wanted to have something that got people’s attention. Our actual drills are based on . . . actual experiences. . . you might want to look further into what we actually train . . .”–Ok, I’ll buy that. Like I said, in the video showing an actual technique, it was (for me) a hell of a lot more impressive than what you showed in your school’s trailer, which was a little more Hollywood than I like to see.
3. “Yes, closed fist punches”–No Mikey, this is one part where I cannot agree. Yes, I do know what gloves you are talking about with kevlar knuckle protectors. Problem is that nobody wears them 24 / 7 and some of the people with broken knuckles who I was talking about were US soldiers who got too dependant upon wearing them, forgot that they were not in a war zone and broke their hands at home in bar fights. The hands are also very complicated and there is much more to break than just the knuckles. Many people who don’t dedicate the required time to strengthening the entire hand break their wrists or the long bones of the back of the hand because their wrist buckles. Maybe you do a lot of fist / forearm conditioning in your school. If your students don’t continue that indefinately, they will have problems later as will the seminar students of yours–two weeks is just not enough time to effectively condition your entire hand and wrist. I see that you chose to teach an open hand strike and grab in your windpipe maniupulation video that I applaud–I’ve taught a concept that is almost 100 % identical to that for years.
4. “Two words, shooter preference. The shooter’s sight picture is not changed from his target when he reloads.”–Actually, it is. Your shooter bends his arm and wrist and points the muzzle of the gun upwards. That brings the muzzle from pointing at the target (not really a “sight picture” by point shooting) and you have to re-allign everything after the mag is in and the slide is forward. I teach you to keep your gun arm straight and just move the mag hand down and back. That way the muzzle is always pointing in the direction of the threat and you can shoot as soon as the mag is in and your gun hand releases the slide. This is especially important to reduce the sitting duck effect by a tactical mag change.
5. “Concerning the flushing scene on the video. Yes, it was very much meant as a joke. We try to encourage some levity whenever possible.”–Ok, on the day that I saw your video, I was doing some scenario training with some new guys and they had to “shoot” me during a traffic stop. Then they holstered their training weapons, smiled and high-fived each other! I raised my weapon and continued shooting from the ground and they said “that’s unfair, you’re dead.” I flipped the fuck out. They didn’t shoot me, they shot in my direction. Was I dead? Was I combat-ineffective? They don’t know! They need to learn that the scenario isn’t over until one of the trainers signals that the situation is over. Hello? Weapon on the bad guy, team member goes in from the L-position to check the bad guy, isolate him from any “wounded” friendlies, apply first aid, etc!
Its just that I always try to keep things as serious and realistic as possible and still have problems with the first few days of training new guys and it looked as though you were encouraging slacking off. Run your training as you see fit, but, as much as I like to have fun, I don’t allow any levity at all during a scenario.
Two things that make my training different are the situational awareness before an incident and the follow-up afterwards. I like to make people wait for an attack and joke with them and make small talk while drawing a hidden weapon and the scenario doesn’t end until after the entire situation is stable and the last radio message is sent out.
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By the way, whereas Mikey and I seemed to have a misunderstanding based upon this video trailer, but may in fact be quite similar in the concepts that we stand for, any asossiation with Mr. J Salva makes the person with whom he is involved seem much less competent.
@Mikey–sorry that this person claiming to know you may cause others to loose respect for you.
@Mr. Salva–thank you for not choosing to take my side in any matters on this blog.
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Bob,
Excellent feedback. I appreciate your open and direct approach. It’s something we share in common. I think we are in agreement with everything minus our reload methods and closed fist striking.
We do teach both open hand and closed fist striking. Our emphasis is on open hand striking with a serious amount of drilling to develop and condition closed hand strikes though. We also use Dit Da Jow for our hard striking training as well. Nothing magical, just dedicated time conditioning and perfecting our angles of striking. We drill a lot of open hand striking though for opening and finishing the fight.
Truth be told regarding the weapon reloads, there are many ways to effectively execute a tactical weapon reload. When I use rifle I keep the barrel on target. The method I use for my personal reloads works best for me though. I have it down to muscle memory and it is a natural motion for me. I feel that is what is most important is that however the weapon is reloaded that it is fast and feels natural. So that there is as much flow as possible.
Good looking out!
V/R,
Michael “Mikey” Warren
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Hey BOB & MR. WARREN. I am sorry for the way I conducted myself bit earlier. I did get caught up in the KNOCK OUT THE LITTLE BOY episode. I do stand by my gentlemen comments and mean no disrespect to you Mr. Warren. It’s a shame that you had to be a target in this shooting gallery due to a past student that doesn’t contain common sense or a curbed tongue. Thats pretty much it. Maybe we can get together and trade off. I’m sure I have said that before but if not there is the invite. Even light gear and contact to show why things are done and the reasoning behind it.
Neil Neazer
ROUGHHOUSE TACTICS -
J.Salva said on September 29th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
Hey Neil. You can take down my personal info about my wife and I as that is my personal page. And yes, go ahead and confirm my Instructorship with IPSSC. The owner himself was on this forum “Miguel Denyer”. Also, I am willing to furnish all documents and phone numbers to all Non Commisioned officers to confirm my MODERN ARMY COMBATIVES PROGRAM Level 4 instructorship as well. I own TACTICAL KALI SYSTEMS and run THE IPSSC Myspace page as well. Neil, you crossed the line with putting my personal info out there. I expect you to take it down or there will be legal consequences.
