Self Defense Street Fighting - Why Bouncers Make the Best Self Defense Teachers

Self Defense Street Fighting – Why Bouncers Make the Best Self Defense Teachers

by admin on Sep.25, 2009, under Christopher "Bob" Roberts (Articles)

Go into a martial arts school and you will see pictures of the master meditating, stretching, doing forms and winning medals. However, should you one day leave the school and be attacked, the only thing in the world important to you will be your ability to fight like a street fighter. Being a good street fighter is what it takes to survive street attacks.

So, who is really qualified to teach you to fight like a street fighter? A martial artist who has never been in a fight in his life or someone who has gone out of his way to get a job that basically consists of him getting involved in fights that other people start?

I would say that the best instructors are either bouncers, some police or some military guys, but the most qualified to teach self defense to civilians are the bouncers. Here’s why:

1. Bouncers have the same (lack of) equipment as civilians–Attack a cop or soldier with a knife or gun and he will do his best to shoot you. Attack a bouncer with a weapon and he will be in exactly the same situation you would be in on the street. Some bouncers carry lead gloves, retractable batons or pepper spray, but most don’t and even those weapons are things that any civilian could obtain and carry. What a bouncer does when faced with armed and / or multiple attackers will also work for you because the circumstances are the same.

2. Bouncers are constantly fighting–Street fights and attacks are over so fast that, if someone is attacked and another person calls the police immediately, they can’t possibly arrive before the fight is over. Bouncers are there from beginning to end. True, some bouncers work for years in a high-class disco and never have to do anything to get their hands dirty. A good trainer would have experience in a place like I work in. Last week I was in three serious fights in one night. Ask your strip-mall karate master if he was in three fights in his entire life.

3. Bouncers have to rely on themselves–There are no SWAT teams or quick reaction forces for bouncers to call when they are outnumbered or in trouble. A bouncer can never back down from a fight. If he gets hurt, he has to ignore the pain and do the best he can. There is no referee to stop the match if he cannot defend himself. Exactly the same situation as you will be in if someone would try to mug or rape you in the real world.

4. Bouncers haven’t been there and seen that, they’ve been everywhere and seen everything–Most bouncers have martial arts or sport fighting training. Most bouncers don’t train in sports or arts anymore. The best ones have taken what they have learned in the gym, tested it on the street and combined it with the rough and tumble street fighting techniques that they have seen work, time and time again. This is the proving ground that has produced my concepts of street fighting based self defense.

5. Bouncers are masters of the mental aspects of self defense–Situational awareness, fear management, killer instinct, pain tolerance. The mental aspects of self defense are the most important by far and exactly these aspects are missing from the repertoire of 99.9 % of the strip mall martial arts masters or self-proclaimed self defense instructors out there, whereas 99.9 % of the real bouncers out there have mastered all of these areas. Some bouncers are fat, others skinny, many smoke, but they are still capable of constantly surviving every violent encounter they might face. How can that be? Well, without the mental edge, a bouncer has a very short career.

Christopher “Bob” Roberts is an ex-soldier who relocated to Europe and now earns his living as a tactics and close-combat instructor for military, police and private security companies.

For more information about armed and unarmed self-protection, subscribe to his free newsletters at http://www.extreme-measures-institute.com and receive access to an exclusive video interview series where he explains the fundamentals of truly effective self defense.

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:bouncers, Christopher "Bob" Roberts, head butt, martial arts, self defense, self protection, street fighting

12 comments for this entry:

Christopher "Bob" Roberts
September 26th, 2009 on 10:59 am
Hi Miguel, thanks for the kind words . . . where should I start?

“it is NOT a bouncer’s job to get into fights”–Someone is laying on the ground in the parking lot in front of the club and a person or persons is / are kicking him. It is your job to stop them. That means restraining / fighting them. That means that it is your job to get into a fight that others have started. I have been in this situation many times and often alone.

“restraint of violent persons is NOT effective self defense”–That depends upon the situation. I have been faced with multiple opponents and larger opponents where my response had little to do with restraint and more with putting myself in front of a person who was being beaten into a pulp and his fight became mine. True, restraint and self defense are two very different things, but bouncing isn’t always about restraint.

“…however, bouncers are often required to restrain violent patrons and eject them from the premises.”–I thought you said that bouncers weren’t paid to fight? Getting physical with a violent person sure sounds like a fight to me. By the way, it has been my experience that the fight isn’t necessarially over when you “eject” someone from the premises. If I didn’t rough him up on the way to the door, he will usually turn around and start swinging when I let him go on the street, but what the hell do I know.

“bouncers who fight instead of doing their job correctly, most often end up in trouble with the law”–Very true. Trouble with the law=part of the job. Anyone can claim that anyone attacked him in any civilized country. The last time that I was called to the police station for a statement, the officer walked me to the door and said “I wouldn’t worry, Mr. NAME is very well known to us.” He was also picked up twice in the time that the district attorney was looking at the case and I eventually got a letter saying that the investigation was ended. It ends up as testimony against testimony and usually gets dropped. If I needed a character wittness, I could easily have gotten the other local cops that I helped handcuff drunks to put in a good word for me in court.

“people who use justifiable means of self defense in the defense of their own lives or the lives of others most often do not”–Bullshit. How often has a woman been beaten by her husband, a passer by stops him and the woman later claims that it was just an arguement and you attacked her husband? Like I said, anyone can claim that he was attacked by anyone.

“if a bouncer was truly aware of his surroundings, he would be able to observe a potentially violent situation unfolding and be able to effectively de-escalate it BEFORE an actual act of violence occurs”–True, like I said, situational awareness. But, if someone really wants to fight, de-escalation doesn’t (always) work. I usually position myself to be able to react as soon as the fight starts and remove the more aggressive person immediately. Starting to talk with someone who wants to fight can end up like a buddy of mine who had a bad habit of standing between two or more people who want to fight and trying to de-escalate. One time he was beaten by five guys who wanted to fight each other, put their differences aside and beat him instead.

“as for killer instinct – since when is it a bouncer’s job to kill anyone?? “–Since when does killer instinct have to do with killing? It is just another term for “I-am-not-going-to-stand-here-and-play-chess-with-you-rather-I-will-bite-eye gouge-headbut-and-otherwise-push-forward-until-you-are-a-puddle-of-organic-waste–and I don’t care if I hurt your feelings doing it!!!”

“anyone who has ever been in a real adrenaline situation will tell you that injuries usually do not hurt at the time they are inflicted but after a short while due to the body’s adrenal response”–I have a permenant scar on my left bicep from where a guy bit me and believe me, it hurt like a mother fucker! Oops, did I use the f-word again? Sorry. Anyway, the only way out was to ignore the pain and use my killer instince to dig my fingers into his eye sockets and pull his head back until he let go.

“The simple fact of the matter is that it is proper repetitive training that will assist you in dealing automatically with an attack on your person … we NEVER rise to the occasion but merely default to our lowest level of training.”–Repetitive training of fine motor skills is not the lowest level of training that you will default to!! I teach people to understand how to bite, headbut, eye grab, etc on a basic level and spontaneously work it into a given situation, not to drill anything at all regarding a pre-arranged technique. No two situations are the same and you need to be training to create in the midst of the chaos of combat.

Anyway Miguel, I thank you for your comments, maybe we just have different experiences in different enviornments.

You seem to be from the UK, which is wierd because I have worked with a few Brits here in Germany and they were very similar in thinking and working to me.
David D'Antonio C.U.T.S. Critical Urban Tactical Strategies
September 26th, 2009 on 4:59 pm
I think I need to put my two cents into this. What I knoe from my personal experience (I have bounced in many types of clubs as well as have worked in teh third party protection business and in loss prevention/security consulting). There are many levels f bouncing and depending on the venue you are working in will dictate the level of force that you will need to use. I think Chris mentioned that point, which everyone seems to have conveniently left out in their criticism of this well trained man. Yes true, if you work in an upscale club your likelyhood of ever having to do more than escort a drunk off of the premises are slim to none.
David D'Antonio C.U.T.S. Critical Urban Tactical Strategies
September 26th, 2009 on 5:29 pm
Please ammend my last post ….this is my full post

I think I need to put my two cents into this. What I knoe from my personal experience (I have bounced in many types of clubs as well as have worked in teh third party protection business and in loss prevention/security consulting). There are many levels f bouncing and depending on the venue you are working in will dictate the level of force that you will need to use. I think Chris mentioned that point, which everyone seems to have conveniently left out in their criticism of this well trained man. Yes true, if you work in an upscale club your likelyhood of ever having to do more than escort a drunk off of the premises are slim to none, however, there are clubs that are frequented by the less desireable of folks and I have bounced in thos eclubs as well. I have bounced in biker bars, after hours speak easy joints as well as stip clubs that are not of the main streat gentlemans club genre.
These are the places that a bouncer is going to have to incorportae all of those skills that Mr Roberts speaks of. I have had to not only break up fights, but also have beenattacked, have had to disarm knives and guns and have had to hurt people.
This is not bragging, this is fact.
Now granted, in the upscale clubs ,yes, a “bouncer” (who is more a glorified door man id checker) is there in a detect and deter capacity, nad is there to reduce liabilty. He willnot fight anyone and will use minimal force as the clientele is not of the kill or be killed click.
These are the type of people that go out looking to get into a fight, they certainly are not running to the police to press charges on a bouncer for getting their ass kicked….its just another night to them.
The college kid at clube trendy who gets pounded by a bouncer is going to sue.
Again its all about where you work.
The karate guys (and I use karate as a generic term) for the most part will not have the aplicable skills needed to survive in a street encounter. You can learn skills nedded to be a strett savvy fighter. You can learn to harness killer instinct.
I think the assessment of Bob’ article was unfair, taken conveniently out of context and biased to make the critics look good.
Bob is a more than compitent fighter, bouncer and a true warrior. Unless you know the man…shut up.!
admin
September 26th, 2009 on 6:03 pm
David, I agree. Some criticism is rational and thought-provoking and others…well…appears as though written by the spirit of a bored caged lion, angry and looking for someone and something to tear down and destroy.
admin
September 28th, 2009 on 10:07 am
Mr. Mcguire,

This is an answer to your question on who would kick whose ass of your list. That is an impossible question to answer, and it even depends on whether you are asking it from a sports or a reality-based fighting perspective. If it is sport, it is a mute question because it depends on the knowledge and skills of fighting within the RULES of that sports venue.

Since anything goes in a real street fight, it is a combination of cunning, situational variables and the elements of surprise. On one day one of your favorites on the list would win and on another day that same favorite on your list would lose. (And yes, I am including the so-called invincible Bruce Lee.)

Hope that answers your question.

Respectfully,

Charles Prosper
“The Street Fighting Sifu”
David D'Antonio C.U.T.S. Critical Urban Tactical Strategies
September 30th, 2009 on 8:55 pm
Gentlemen:

I have just re-read this entire (lengthly) thread and I must say this. WE HAVE ALL BEHAVED FOOLISHLY HERE, MYSELF INCLUDED.
What I think, as we are ALL professionals who each seem to have our individual areas of expertise, is that instead of being so dead set on working against each other, we would do much better working together and learning from each others strengths and weaknesses.

I am actually embarrassed for my abrupt behavior in this thread, I have not set a good example here for anyone.

Charles you are one of my dearest and closest friends as well as a dedicated student of mine, and I should have demonstrated more self control in my words here.

Is this the example we want to set for our students…I think not.

I allowed myself to be drawn into this argument as opposed to remaining level headed and simply stating my opinions. I made insults, and that is not professional. Im man enough to admit that.

I am a loyal man, and I was standing up for my buddies, I however did it in the wrong way.

I apologize to both Mr. Salva and Mr. Denyer for my unprofessional insulting bahavior and words. I also apologize to my students for setting a bad example.

I think this whole event became a testosterone infested pissing war.

We are all great at what we do. We all believe in what we do. There is no need for us to fight and piss on a tree.

I believe that a lesson is learned here and that is as teachers we need to curb ourselves and set examples. We are all passionate about what we do. That passion however seemed to turn into a foolish debacle.

Gentlemen, we all need to get along. We can and should learn from each other.

My sincere apologies to ALL involved .

As always be safe…and keep it real.
David D’Antonio
C.U.T.S.
Critical Urban Tactical Strategies
Norm Bettencourt
September 30th, 2009 on 10:38 pm
Your right this as gone completely over board and it’s stupid (let alone draining my energy). We can all learn from one another… no one way is right and we can disagree in a respectful manner without creating drama. Charles and I have spoken and we both have learned a valuable lesson through this entire situation (I have learned a valuable lesson about myself and know where I need to improve on when it comes to my personality).

My SINCERE apologies to J Salva, Miguel and to the members of this forum. Lets just call it even and agree to disagree.

Peace

Norm Bettencourt
Miguel
October 1st, 2009 on 11:12 am
Gentlemen, thank you for the apology… it is most humbly and gratefully accepted. I also apologize to Mr. Roberts for my original post which, in retrospect, could have been worded differently.
I still stand my original opinion which, is based on almost two decades of experience although I should also state that things do happen differently around the world so I guess what has happened in my personal experience may not be the case with regards to the personal experiences in others.

Incidentally, I gave up working on the door almost a decade ago to move on to bigger and better things – I have worked as a professional bodyguard and surveillance operator for the last 10 years which, seemed like the natural progression from working the door circuit and with regard to working the door, I guess things have changed in that time period.

That said, I am also big enough to admit that I too was a little belligerent especially in my last post in which I addressed you all. That was the first time (and the last) where I have used profanity when addressing others with whom I have no personal affiliation and for that, I apologize.

This is a very small world and there are enough wannabes and jokers out there without us joining their ranks so I too will agree to disagree and hope that moving forward, we can entertain more civilized and constructive discussion.

Sincerely & Respectfully Yours,

Miguel Denyer
Founder
The Institute of Protection Specialists & Security Contractors (IPSSC)
“Semper Praesidium Caterva”
Self Defense Moves
January 24th, 2010 on 1:23 pm
I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your blog. I generally do not post on blogs but yours is really great!
Kenneth Moffat
April 21st, 2010 on 5:43 am
Very interesting post thank you for sharing I have added your website to my bookmarks and will check back.
Bruce
May 19th, 2010 on 7:54 am
David, I agree. Some criticism is rational and thought-provoking and others…well…appears as though written by the spirit of a bored caged lion, angry and looking for someone and something to tear down and destroy.
Dominga Ownby
July 23rd, 2010 on 6:02 pm
I wish more people would take the time to buy some sort of self defense product like a pepper spray. They are easy to use and could protect you.